Blanche and others who have done hydrotherapy

Makayla had her first hydrotherapy session last Saturday. On Saturday evening and Sunday she was sore and weak in her back end - dragging her foot more than usual, limping more than usual. I fully expected that since she'd worked so hard at swimming on Saturday, using muscles she hasn't used in a while. But the weakness has lasted all week. Ok, figured that was still normal. But today a new development that had me thoroughly freaked out.

I got home around 7 tonight, she came in the kitchen to say hello to me. She turned to walk away and her entire back end collapsed. She tried to get up again and again and her back end kept collapsing putting her into a sitting position. Happened maybe 4 times and then she finally got strength and was able to get her back end up and walk away. I told Josh about it and he said she did it this afternoon when he came home from running errands.

Both times were after she'd been resting for a while. Both passed quickly. But that's the first time (other than immediately after a couple minutes of intense swimming last weekend) that her back end has given out on her. And it really scared me. She has her next swimming session on Sunday so I'll be sure to ask her therapist if it's normal. But, in the meantime, can those of you who have gone through hydrotherapy before tell me if you've experienced anything like this before? Is this in fact normal?

No, it is absolutely not normal and I would worry that she's done something. How long did she swim? My physiotherapist starts a dog at only a couple of minutes and then works up to 15 minute swims over the course of several weeks.

I don't want to terrify you, Rach, but I'd call your vet and I'd cancel the swimming until you have some idea what's going on. This sounds like whatever has happened is making the situation worse. Could she have pinched a nerve? If you do go through with swimming again, I'd not do more than a couple of minutes. Maybe have her floating mostly while someone manipulates her legs. I'm not an expert on this, but this sounds worrisome to me.

Ok, now I'm thoroughly freaked out, Blanche. I will put a call in to the vet first thing in the morning and cancel her swimming on Sunday. I did expect her to be tired and sore. But it's scared me that it's continued this long. And honestly, the episode tonight was horrible to watch. Initially, i thought she'd just fallen, but she repeatedly couldn't get up and that didn't seem right at all.

She was in the pool for a while, but swimming for a max of probably 5-7 minutes. And that was separated into two or three periods of time, so it wasn't 5-7 minutes straight. In between, she was floating and she used the jets to massage her hips. I certainly don't know much about it, but it didn't seem like too much swimming at all - seemed about right. And she had plenty of breaks as well.

Honey, it might not be related to the exercise at all. And it doesn't sound like your therapist over did it. But it shouldn't take this long for her to recover. Any of the dogs I've taken have been tired for the rest of the day, but were back to normal the next day (except the lunatic puppies).
I'd worry that something has happened and I don't know enough to know if more swimming would be good or bad.
Sorry, I'm not trying to freak you out deliberately. I just know that if I'd seen what you saw, I'd be as worried as you are. It doesn't sound like she's in pain--although pugs are way too stoic.
I may be over reacting, but if it were me and one of my dogs, I'd see the vet just to be sure that something else/more wasn't going on.

As a human PT, I'm with Blanche on this one. I'd get in to see the vet again. Even if it's completely unrelated to her hydrotherapy, something ain't right and it's a new change.

oh Rach, sending lots of good thoughts for Kayla. I hope your vet can give you some answers.

It's ok, Blanche, I was already freaked out. My gut said to call the vet tomorrow but my rational side said not to be paranoid. I needed someone else to confirm whether I should see the vet or not. So, we'll call in the morning and pick his brain. I thought my babies were still young and we didn't have to worry about this stuff til they were older. Everyday I see her struggle, it breaks my heart all over again, knowing her little body is aging so fast.

Oh, and she doesn't seem to be in pain. We're still doing daily pain meds and I hope that's keeping any pain in check. But I think not being able to stand up freaked her out as much as me. The look on her face was terror.

I'll let you know how the vet goes tomorrow.

Oh, Rachel, I am so sorry to hear this. I agree, it sounds to me like the therapist did just right and this is something else. I'll say a huge prayer for Kayla tonight and please keep us posted! Hugs to you and Kayla.

Lots of good thoughts for you and Kayla, Rachel!

I'm sorry if I missed this before Rach, but has she had any xrays or anything done? I would definitely make a vet appointment and go from there. It's possible that she may need to see a neurologist (if she hasn't already). Sending good vibes for you both!

Rach I would be scared too! Sounds like a spine thing to me also. But with the arthritis in the hips, it seems natural to me to assume that there would be some in the spine also. I would be worried about a slipped disc. Let us know and I will keep sister in my prayers!

Ok, now I need advice. Brenda, she has had x-rays done - in July she was sedated and had a complete ortho exam with x-rays. That's when they discovered hip displaysia and the severe arthritic changes. So we went to the vet today, explained what's going on. He feels yesterday's episodes were not caused by the hips - most likely something in the back, bulging disk, pinched nerve, etc. She does have a delayed response when he flips her back feet over - she does correct them, but there's a delay in her response. He said at this point, the next thing to do diagnostically would be a myleogram (sp?), but he also said he doesn't feel it's indicated at this point because she is walking. If she were completely dragging her back end, then he'd definitely do a myleogram. At this time, he recommends we continue pain meds daily, limit her activity (especially no jumping off the bed/couch, which we've been trying to limit) and hold off on hydrotherapy sessions.

So my question is - do I go to a neurologist? Do I seek a second opinion? Do I just continue with what my vet has recommended at this point and see if it progresses? Do I start acupuncture, without having a definitive diagnosis as to what's going on in her back? What would you guys do?

Obviously I can only give you my opinion, but considering the delayed response when he flipped over her paw, I would consult a neurologist.
We took Tyson to the UW Madison Veterinary Teaching Hospital, so that might be something you would want to consider. I really liked the whole atmosphere, you have a consultation with a 4th year student and the neurologist, then they leave to discuss what they've seen, and come back and "present" it to you. We were there for a good hour and a half at least, so I appreciated the time they took to spend with us.
For reference, I want to say the appt. itself was like $110.

dieselsmom wrote:Ok, now I need advice. Brenda, she has had x-rays done - in July she was sedated and had a complete ortho exam with x-rays. That's when they discovered hip displaysia and the severe arthritic changes. So we went to the vet today, explained what's going on. He feels yesterday's episodes were not caused by the hips - most likely something in the back, bulging disk, pinched nerve, etc. She does have a delayed response when he flips her back feet over - she does correct them, but there's a delay in her response. He said at this point, the next thing to do diagnostically would be a myleogram (sp?), but he also said he doesn't feel it's indicated at this point because she is walking. If she were completely dragging her back end, then he'd definitely do a myleogram. At this time, he recommends we continue pain meds daily, limit her activity (especially no jumping off the bed/couch, which we've been trying to limit) and hold off on hydrotherapy sessions.

So my question is - do I go to a neurologist? Do I seek a second opinion? Do I just continue with what my vet has recommended at this point and see if it progresses? Do I start acupuncture, without having a definitive diagnosis as to what's going on in her back? What would you guys do?

This is just me, but i think I would go ahead and see a neurologist. I know I'd just worry about it anyways, and probably make myself more miserable. I also would probably hold off on the acupuncture until I got it more narrowed down on what it could be.

I think a neuro consult is probably what I'd do. Hopefully, it will give you some information to work with. that's the maddening thing about this stuff--there's a lot of "it could be" involved and it's hard to know when to say "This is the new normal".

Continued good thoughts and healing karma out to you all.

I would probably go ahead with the neuro consult, too. They will most likely do tests similar to what your vet has done but a little more in depth and then tell you whether or not a myelogram or MRI is necessary or if it's safe to take the "wait & see" approach and start acupuncture. In my experience in dealing with pugs with disc/back end problems, they will probably want to do the myelogram/MRI, though. They can usually tell if a disc is bulging or ruptured on an xray by the way that the vertebrae are positioned, but the spinal cord & nerves cannot be seen so it's hard for them to make a definitive diagnosis without those other tests.

I'm with the neuro on this as I have been like Bella before. My general practicioner just wanted me to lay off it and just that alone didnt make anything better- if anything all the sitting I was doing trying to rest was inflamming the nerve. Later found out that if I went straight to the neuro- they wouldve helped me right away instead of wait and see until it got worse.

Sometimes my leg would hurt too bad to walk. I was a swimmer and a horseback instructor too when this happened to I needed strong legs. I walked everywhere and went to a gym 3 times a week. When it hurt my responses were delayed on that leg and got worse and worse.

I ended up having my sciatic nerve pinched severely and sensory and one of the areas the femoral nerve supply motor skills to the ilioposas which was somehow pulled and I just kept on damaging it with my activities making it worse until I got some treatments from the neuro and some slow gradual therapy and taking everything easier on my leg and having to either just stand or lay down more than sitting in a chair.

If it is something of a nerve, it's so specific and a need to know to treat it.

My hesitation with doing a neuro consult, MRI and myelogram is why do the tests if I won't put her through a surgery? I'm almost certain I wouldn't put her through any sort of surgery, so what then would be the purpose of doing the tests? Just to have a definitive diagnosis? And can we do acunpuncture without having a definite diagnosis? I'm at a loss of which way to proceed. I welcome everyone's advice. I've been going back and forth all day long on what to do.

Well if you arent going to go the conventional treatment route I get the hesitation and it might be unnecessary tests.

I dont think you do need those tests for acupuncture as they have their own way of finding out what is affected. If acupuncture is the treatment you're willing to try, just go ahead directly to them and ask them what point of plan would they have for her.

Well, I guess for me the usefulness of the neuro consult would be to tell you what the problem is so you can at least know what wouldn't be helpful. I understand about not doing the surgery--I'm less inclined to that option myself depending on the diagnosis. But it's possible, I guess, that some alternatives might not be helpful and could be harmful. At least with the neuro consult, you could say to the acupuncturist or chiro or whoever that this diagnosis is........
And a diagnosis gives you a starting point for researching what your options are. There may not be any, but I'm always a bit fearful of things like chiro and physio without a diagnosis. Acupuncture I just don't know enough about to say if they require a diagnosis or not.