What can you tell me about giardia?

I went with Tiffany yesterday to look at Boxers that are being adopted out by Middle TN Boxer Rescue. The one we thought looked the sweetest currently is in quarantine for giardia. I know the basics from googling (like it causes poo problems and loss of apetite) but what else do I need to know? We were told she will be tested again on Monday to see if she is better.

Good old giardia. Here's what you need to know and that most folks don't know--the meds don't kill giardia. Giardia is often an immune issue. The meds help fight off the symptoms and secondary infections/parasites, but giardia isn't killed necessarily.

Yes, use the meds. BUT immune boost the dog as well. Decent diet, Missing Link and some Omega 3s will help. And the only way to kill giardia on the floor and in the yard is straight bleach. There are other disinfectants you can use, but they are highly toxic. When I have a giardia dog, I pick up poop IMMEDIATELY and then wash the area with straight bleach. If it's in the yard, I pick up and spray the area with bleach. Hard on the lawn.

It can take months to get rid of it. Months.

It is a common thing for puppies to get and is easily tranferred to other dogs as well as to humans. It comes from a bacteria - humans get it often by drinking un-purified water from a stream while hiking or camping. It causes nasty diarrhea and can be difficult to fully get rid of. It seems to take quite a while until the bacteria is eradicated.

So I'm sensing the "it should be gone by Monday" is a bunch of bullshit?

Amber wrote:So I'm sensing the "it should be gone by Monday" is a bunch of bullshit?

Well, it COULD be. Depends alot on the dog. A friend of mine had a Frenchie who had it as a puppy and it took 6 months to get a clean fecal. I know that the vet had Ollie on metronidazole among other things. But she's convinced that immune boosting him and his age helped. Just "grew out of it" to some degree--in that his system became strong enough to fight it off.

I've had a couple of giardia dogs and all cleared up quickly. But it's not always the case.

Leo had giardia a year or so ago. We learned that it was going around at the dog park (being transmitted through the water bowls they leave out at the dog park). We ended up having to treat all three boys because it is contagious.

I don't remember the medicine, but I remember I had to make the capsules myself because of the dosage. The vet gave me a cannister of powder and I had to fill gel capsules 3/4 full. I think the dogs were on the pills maybe two weeks? Cleared right up. I think they also put Leo on flagil and I/D canned food for a couple of days. It wasn't a huge deal but certainly was an inconvenience. Oh yeah, and we needed to take in poop samples for testing.

The quarantine should just be related to the contagious nature of giardia. Once they are cleared up, no problems.

ETA: Their doggie daycare also had an outbreak of giardia. They daycare now requires giardia fecal testing every 6 months for dogs to attend.

Kendie - the place where the rescue is having them boarded is also a doggie day care so that makes sense. I wonder if they shouldn't institute that policy as well.

There were two that Tiffany was particularly interested in - the one with giardia (Maxi) and another one Roxy. Roxy had been adopted out and sent back when she put a wound requiring 17 stitches in her adoptee's other dog (a 90lb male boxer - she is small and probably about 45lbs). When we played with her she seemed quite calm and lovable, but she was the only dog out at the time. Tiffany's mom has a cat that will be around whatever dog she chooses and she asked me which I would choose and I told her I'd take giardia over a dog that could lash out. Was that the right thing to say?

Amber wrote:Kendie - the place where the rescue is having them boarded is also a doggie day care so that makes sense. I wonder if they shouldn't institute that policy as well.

There were two that Tiffany was particularly interested in - the one with giardia (Maxi) and another one Roxy. Roxy had been adopted out and sent back when she put a wound requiring 17 stitches in her adoptee's other dog (a 90lb male boxer - she is small and probably about 45lbs). When we played with her she seemed quite calm and lovable, but she was the only dog out at the time. Tiffany's mom has a cat that will be around whatever dog she chooses and she asked me which I would choose and I told her I'd take giardia over a dog that could lash out. Was that the right thing to say?

Absolutely the right thing to say. Giardia isn't the end of the world, but it can take some patience and time and the dog will need to be on an EXCELLENT food--any old crap won't cut it. And they shouldn't be surprised if she isn't clean by Monday. It is pretty easily caught by other animals so scrupulous cleanliness is necessary--as in--don't let poop lie around for any period of time at all and clean any indoor accidents with bleach. It's most commonly caught by dogs stepping in poop and then licking their feet, licking each other's butts. It's a protozoan, basically. I would certainly have the dog re-tested in 2 or 3 weeks after a clean fecal to be on the safe side.
It's not an uncommon bug to have around the dog park or day cares. My guys rarely pick it up even when I've had giardia in the house with a foster. I pick up regularly and everyone has an intact (mostly) immune system.

It was probably Panacur that you got, Kendie. That's the big guns.

Blanche can you recomend a good food? Maxi is still pretty puppy-ish. They estimate her to be a year old but she's got a puppy face to me. She is also very thin. This will be Tiffany's first dog so a kibble would be best vs a raw. I'm not sure she could handle that at least at first. I could recomend what I feed but all of my crew is on a different kibble based on their individual allergies.

Just thought I would update you guys since you were so helpful about this topic! Maxi tested clear on Saturday so I'm taking Tiffany over to adopt her after work today. She is so cute and we are all so excited!! If you go here, there is a good photo of her - first row, middle pic:

http://www.crossroadspets.com/ForAdoption/tabid/70/Default.aspx

congrats to tiffany on her new boxer. very sweet.

milo has had giardia a few times. the vet said it's very common, but can be hard to be rid of, as blanche said. milo was treated and had a re-test and was fine, but i washed everything and picked up poop right away. he actually had it two years in a row. luckily, he did not get any diarrhea from it. my pugs did not get it, even though they are in close contact, but we treated them all anyway.

Congrats to Tiffany!

As to food, with the larger breeds--especially if they are young and haven't reached full growth, I tend to go with a somewhat lower protein food as you don't want their growth to skyrocket. Boxers are as bad as pugs for skin issues and allergies--so I'd look for a no grain food with protein in the 25 to 35 % range. She could certainly go to a higher protein when she's full grown.

I haven't had a large breed in a while so I could be talking crap here. Marci might have advice on food for the larger breeds given Odin.

Hopefully T will chime in as our resident boxer expert.

Congrats to Tiffany!! I want a boxer SO BAD!!!

Gracie had what the vet though was giardia. She was put on some meds and she ended up being fine. They think she got it from licking the ground, which she has a terrible habit of doing.

Ok, I take no responsibility for this info or how great it is, but this is offered on my mastiff forum and the guy is VERY knowledgeable and does a ton of research. I will be interested what you knowledgeable pug peeps here think of the info....

Bloat haas never been an issue for be cause both of my mastiff's were slow eaters. I just keep his food elevated to aid with digestion, but mostly to keep it out of pug reach!! LOL!



Have added a couple of new foods this year (and taken a few away due to the introduction of synthetic Vitamin K-3). You’ll see more entries for Canadian food companies. And notice there is no longer an Eagle Pack on the list since the EP Holistic is now technically called Holistic Select and the foods still carrying the Eagle Pack name have corn so don’t qualify.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

How did I pick these? I used a couple of criteria:
1. Food contains NO corn and doesn’t contain a lot of grains in the top ingredients.
2. Company has disclosed where the food is manufactured.
3. Food contains a good amount of animal protein in the top ingredients (prefer a named meal as #1 or at least a named meat as #1 followed by a named meal in the top ingredients).
4. Food contains NO meat or poultry by-products.
5. Food contains NO synthetic Vitamin K.
6. Food has only named ingredients, especially in the fats and proteins.
7. Food contains NO gluten meals.
8. If food contains grains and vegetables, it’s whole grains and vegetables, not fragments.
9. Food contains NO artificial colors, flavors or preservatives.
10. Food contains NO added sweeteners.

If your food isn’t on this list but passes the criteria I use to select foods for this list, then chances are your food is fine. There’s no way I can evaluate every single food that is out there.

And remember, a top food is only top if your dog likes it and does well on it.

The listing contains the following information: Brand Name, Manufacturing Information, and Company web site.

THE MAIN FOOD LIST, W/GRAINS –
*4Health - from Tractor Supply Company (made by Diamond in Lathrop CA, Meta MO, and Gaston SC), www.tractorsupply.com
*Addiction Foods – Wild Kangaroo & Apples ONLY (made by Taplow Ventures, Vancouver BC; Pied Piper, Hamlin TX; and Texas Farm Products, Nacogdoches TX), www.addictionfoods.com
*American Natural Basic or Original (made by Fromm, Mequon WI), www.americannaturalpremium.com
*Artemis Pet Foods Fresh Mix and Natural 6 Mix (made by Diamond, Lathrop CA), www.artemiscompany.com
*Bench & Field, Holistic Natural Canine (made by WellPet, Mishawaka IN), www.benchandfield.com.
*Blue Buffalo (made by Chenango Valley Pet Foods, Sherburne NY; CJ Foods, Bern KS; Dad’s Pet Foods, Meadville PA; and Triple T Foods, Frontenac KS, www.bluebuff.com
*Blue Seal Foods, By Nature and By Nature Organics (made in their own plant, Arcade NY and Chenango Valley Pet Foods, Sherburne NY), www.bynaturepetfoods.com
*Breeder’s Choice Pet Foods (made in their own plant, Irwindale CA), www.breeders-choice.com
*Burns Pet Health (made by CJ Foods, Bern KS), www.burnspethealth.com
*Canidae Corp. (made by Diamond Pet Foods, Lathrop CA, Meta MO and Gaston SC), www.canidae.com
*Canine Caviar Pet Foods (made by Ohio Pet Foods, Lisbon OH), www.caninecaviar.com
*Castor & Pollux Pet Works (made by CJ Foods, Bern KS and Crosswinds Petfoods Inc, Sabetha KS), www.castorpolluxpet.com
*Champion Pet Foods, Acana (made in their own plant, Alberta Canada), www.championpetfoods.com
*Della Natura Commodities, Wenaewe (made by Erro S.A., Dolores Uruguay), www.dellanaturapet.com
*Diamond Pet Products, Chicken Soup Formulas and Diamond Naturals 60+ (made in their three facilities in Lathrop CA, Meta MO and Gaston SC), www.chickensoupforthepetloverssoul.com and www.diamondpet.com
*Dick Van Patten’s Natural Balance (made by CJ Foods, Bern KS), www.naturalbalance.net
*Dogswell LLC (made by Tuffy’s Pet Foods, Perham MN), www.dogswell.com
*Evanger’s Dog & Cat Food Company, Evanger’s (made either by Ohio Pet Foods, Lisbon OH or Fromm Family Foods, Mequon WI), www.evangersdogfood.com
*Firstmate Pet Foods (made in their own plant, Chilliwack BC Canada), www.firstmate.com
*Fromm Family Foods (made in their facility, Mequon WI), www.frommfamily.com
*Grandma Mae's Pet Foods (made by Chenango Valley Pet Foods, Sherberne NY), www.grandmamaes.com
*Horizon Complete (made in their own plant, Saskatoon Saskatchewan Canada), www.horizonpetfood.com
*Laughing Dog, Inc. (made by Taplow Foods, Chilliwack BC Canada), www.laughingdoginc.com
*Life4K9 Pet Food Corp. (made by Bio Biscuit, Saint-Hyacinthe Quebec Canada and Hampshire Pet Products, Joplin MO), www.life4k9.com
*Merrick Pet Care (made in their own plant, Hereford TX), www.merrickpetcare.com
*Mulligan Stew Pet Food (made by Mountain Country Foods, Okeene OK), www.mulliganstewpetfood.com
*Natura Pet Products (made in their own plants in Fremont NE and San Leandro CA), www.naturapet.com
*Nature’s Select (made by Mid America, Mount Pleasant TX), www.naturesselectpetproducts.com
*Nature’s Variety (made by Pied Piper Mills, Hamlin TX), www.naturesvariety.com
*Natural Planet Organics by Nutrisource (made in their own manufacturing facility), www.nutrisourcedogfood.com/naturalplanetorganics/
*Natural Planet Pure Vita by Nutrisource (made in their own manufacturing facility), www.nutrisourcedogfood.com/purevita/
*Petcurean Pet Nutrition (made by Elmira Pet Products, Ontario Canada), www.petcurean.com
*Pet Valu, Peformatrin Ultra (made by Elmira Pet Products, Ontario Canada), www.performatrinultra.com
*SmartPak, LiveSmart (made by Chenango Valley Pet Foods, Sherburne NY), www.smartpakcanine.com
*Solid Gold Health Products (made by Diamond in Meta MO and Lathrop CA), www.solidgoldhealth.com
*Tuffy’s Pet Foods Inc, Natural Planet Organics and Pure Vita ONLY (made in their own plant, Perham MN), www.nutrisourcedogfood.com
*VeRUS Pet Foods (made by Ohio Pet Foods, Lisbon OH), www.veruspetfoods.com
*Wellpet, Holistic Select and Wellness (made in their plant in Mishawaka IN; Hagen Pet Foods, Waverly NY; CJ Foods, Bern KS; American Nutrition, Ogden UT; and Diamond Pet Foods, Gaston SC and Lathrop CA), www.wellpet.com
*Whole Earth Farms (this is a Merrick brand and is made in their plant in Hereford TX), www.merrickpetcare.com/store/whole_earth_farms_dry.php
*Wysong Corporation (made in their facility, Lake Mills WI), www.wysong.net

THE MAIN FOOD LIST, GRAIN-FREE –
*Addiction Foods – Salmon Bleu and Viva La Venison ONLY (made by Taplow Ventures, Vancouver BC; Pied Piper, Hamlin TX; and Texas Farm Products, Nacogdoches TX), www.addictionfoods.com
*Canidae Corp. (made by Diamond Pet Foods in Lathrop CA, Meta MO and Gaston SC), www.canidae.com
*Champion Pet Foods, Acana Grain Free and Orijen (made in their own plant, BC Canada), www.championpetfoods.com/orijen
*Diamond Pet Products, Taste of the Wild (made in their three facilities in Lathrop CA, Meta MO and Gaston SC), www.tasteofthewildpetfood.com
*Dick Van Patten’s Natural Balance, Natural Balance Limited Ingredients Formulas (made by Diamond Pet Foods, Meta MO), www.naturalbalanceinc.com
*Firstmate Pet Foods, Firstmate Grain Free (made in their own plant in Chilliwack BC Canada), www.firstmate.com
*Fromm Family Foods, 4 Star Surf N Turf(made in their facility, Mequon WI), www.frommfamily.com
*Horizon Legacy (made in their own plant, Saskatoon Saskatchewan Canada), www.horizonpetfood.com
*Merrick Pet Care, Before Grain (made in their own plant, Hereford TX), www.merrickpetcare.com
*Natura Pet Products, EVO (made in their own plant, Fremont NE), www.naturapet.com
*Nature’s Variety, Instinct (made by Pied Piper Mills, Hamlin TX), www.naturesvariety.com
*Petcurean Pet Nutrition, Now! and Go!Natural Grain Free (made by Elmira Pet Products, Ontario Canada), www.petcurean.com
*Solid Gold Health Products, Barking at the Moon (made by Diamond in Meta MO or Lathrop CA), www.solidgoldhealth.com
*Wellpet, Wellness CORE (made in their own plant in Mishawaka IN; Hagen Pet Foods, Waverly NY; CJ Foods, Bern KS; American Nutrition, Ogden UT; Diamond Pet Foods, Gaston SC and Lathrop CA), www.wellpet.com

USE CAUTION IN FEEDING GRAIN FREE FOODS TO GROWING DOGS! Many grain free foods (for instance, EVO) have calcium and phosphorus levels that are too high for growing giant pups. Feeding those foods can harm your puppy. So the general rule is steer clear of grain free until your dog's growth plates have closed (usually around 2 years of age). Also be aware that I don't think there have been any studies of long-term effects of feeding grain free foods that contain higher calcium and phosphorus levels to adult dogs.

THE SECONDARY FOOD LIST (wasn’t fully disclosed where the food is made) –
*Kent Feeds Haven (unable to find out where it is made), www.havenpetfood.com

*Science Diet Nature’s Best ONLY (unable to find out where it is made), www.hillspet.com
*Timberwolf Organics, Timberwolf (will only say they use a manufacturer in the Northeast and that they are the only one to use them), www.timberwolforganics.com



Per Larry's suggestion, here are the foods off my top food list that I believe can be purchased in most locations for right around $45 or less per 30-40 pound bag. Obviously the final price is determined by the local retailer.

4Health (Tractor Supply Company) - www.tractorsupply.com
American Natural Basic or Original - www.americannaturalpremium.com
Authority - http://www.petsmart.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=3153384&f=Taxonomy%2FPET%2F2767072&f=Taxonomy%2FPET%2F3153384&lmdn=Brand&f=PAD%2FBrands%2FAuthority&fbc=1&fbn=Brands|
Blue Seal Life Stages Pork & Barley Flavor ONLY - www.blueseal.com
Breeder's Choice Foods - includes AvoDerm, Breeder's Choice Health Food, Pinnacle - www.breeders-choice.com
By Nature - www.bynaturepetfoods.com
Chicken Soup for the Pet Lover's Soul - www.chickensoupforthepetloverssoul.com
Diamond Naturals - www.diamondpet.com
Horizon Complete (made in their own plant, Saskatoon Saskatchewan Canada), www.horizonpetfood.com
Kent Feeds Haven - www.havenpetfood.com
Nature's Select - www.naturalpetfooddelivery.com or www.naturesselectpetproducts.com (Note this food is sold through dealers so may not be available in your area. Best bet is to do a Google search for a dealer)
Nutra Nuggets - www.nutranuggets.com (Do not feed this if your dog has wheat allergies. Also this food is produced by Diamond Pet Foods)
Science Diet Nature's Best - www.hillspet.com ([i]Note - This recommendation is ONLY for the Nature's Best formulas.
Whole Earth Farms - www.merrickpetcare.com/store/whole_earth_farms_dry.php

And I leave my top three picks until last. I separate these out because both are family-owned operations. In the case of Fromm, they make their own food. In Evanger's case, Fromm makes the food for them. Healthwise is made by Natura and I have heard in some places it can be had for $29 a bag. Natura is an excellent manufacturer, too - they also make Innova and EVO.

Evanger's - www.evangersdogfood.com
Fromm Classic or Gold - www.frommfamily.com
Healthwise - www.healthwisepetfood.com