Sad question about end of life and vets' responses

Thanks, Blanche. I'll let her know. I know your words have helped me in retrospect, and I'm sure, for the future, and I especially appreciate them at such a sad time for you.

I was just reading an article in the NY times I think about how we are overmedicating and over treating people-basically we have become so concerned with "living" that we forget about the quality of that life. We have made so many advances in medicine and vet care, but that doesn't necessarily translate to a better life in some cases.

Well put. And I talked to my friend about how it must be hard for a medical person to euthanize, but I guess I've always assumed that vets (unlike human doctors--which is an entirely different discussion not for this thread), while not the ones to broach the subject (unless the animal is suffering terribly and the human is clueless or in severe denial), would certainly discuss it when the time comes, and yes, probably know you well enough if you've been going there for years, you're not just getting rid of a PITA animal.

I can't believe (well, o.k., I can--I know there are extremists everywhere), but am sorry to read you got nasty emails about your other dogs, Blanche. Nothing like hitting someone when she's down. How can people not see that at that point, it's selfish to force a pet to hang on just because we can't bear the thought of them dying?

Oh nothing surprises me, Lex. Most of the folks I got nasty emails from are/were Right to Lifers or Religious right wingers who defend life at all costs and feel that me making a decision to end my pet's life was playing God--a being I don't happen to believe in in the Christian incarnation of it, anyway. What I always find interesting about these folks is that they are almost universally pro death penalty. Never makes any sense to me.

This is a very helpful thread for a lot of us dealing with seniors. I know what Blanche means about feeling a mixture of guilt and relief and always second-guessing oneself, but the bottom line is that we know our dogs best and love our dogs best and have to trust our own judgment.

But to play devil's advocate for a moment, I can see where a vet might balk in some instances (I'm not suggesting in this case; I'm just saying ...). We've had more than one instance of a rescue pug being taken to a vet to be euthanized by owners who were thinking more about themselves than the dog. Betsy and Jake were two examples. And we had an old dear taken to a vet in the north end of Toronto to be put down although in decent health but the vet intervened and called us. I guess it comes down to how well the vet knows you/your dog and your motivation for euthanizing.

In February, although it was sudden, I knew that unless the vet could pull a rabbit out of a hat, that it was time to say goodbye to Jake. I psyched myself up as best I could for the visit and off we went. Unfortunately because it was a last minute visit, I got the 3rd vet, not either of the owners that I like so much. While discussing the dismal options, during which I dismissed each as not viable, I gave some pretty strong clues that I thought the only option was to say goodbye to him. She didn't bite and kept "chatting", long silences in between. And I wasn't adding much to the conversation as my heart was breaking with an immobile Jake in my arms. Finally I pretty much flat out told her that I thought it was time. She then excused herself from the room, saying that she'd come back in 5 minutes for my decision. Duh! I was trying to keep it together for Jake, not letting him see my grief in his last minutes and she left me to think about it???? She came back and I said goodbye to him and left with my heart in little pieces. It was already hard enough without having to "manage" the vet. When it came time to say goodbye to Kimmy 3 months later, there was a little more flexibility over time and I insisted on one of the owners doing it. At the last minute, the wife-owner had a schedule conflict and they offered me the 3rd vet. I said absolutely not, I'm not putting Bryan through that with his Kim. So the husband-owner did it. Although he witnessed Bryan having a complete melt-down, he was compassionate and professional and managed what could have been a very embarrassing and awkward male moment well.

To me, putting your dog down is one of life's most intimate moments and I want to make sure I have the help of a vet who knows me, trusts me, knows my dog and is caring and sympathetic. I don't care how knowledgeable a vet is (well, I actually do), relationship is equally important.

I am so very sorry your friend got such a lack of support.
The cats, dogs, and horses I have lost in the past few years I have been blessed to have large and small animal vets that understood quality time versus quantity. That my animals and I would decide when it was time and there would be no fight to the bitter end. No drastic measures and experimental treatments to buy an extra hour, day, or week.
In each case, the animals said quite clearly ... we are done. My mule and Karol's mare were colicing and both elderly. The surgery and anesthesia were far more dangerous to them than was worth risking. Karol and I chose to end their pain with kindness and love. The vet desperately wanted to find a different solution for us, but kept coming back to the need for them to have quality ... and surgery was not going to give that to us, nor was further medication. Karol's ShellyDog went just as Lola did. One day, she just quit. No more eating, no more drinking, just no more. We all said our good byes, took her to Doc, and he never questioned the decision. If he had, i'da fired him on the spot.
Being a Healer is more than curing diseases and patching up owies ... it is about ensuring dignity. A life comes to a close, that has to be our final gift to them.

DappleDoxieStaff wrote:
Being a Healer is more than curing diseases and patching up owies ... it is about ensuring dignity. A life comes to a close, that has to be our final gift to them.

Well said.

Lots of wise words here. Thank you. Blanche--I gave my friend Karen your email and she may contact you. Thanks again (I sent an email to you too, so you'd have her name).

"Being a Healer is more than curing diseases and patching up owies ... it
is about ensuring dignity. A life comes to a close, that has to be our
final gift to them."

You hit the nail on the head. As a pet owner, we owe it to them to make their passing as painless and dignified as possible.

When I worked at a boarding kennel there was a family that had a 15 year old basset hound. This poor dog had an endless list of health issues and was in much pain and he badly bit one of the kennel workers one morning when it was time for him to go outside and potty. Even after that, the family opted to keep the dog alive. I felt so bad for that poor dog, he was miserable and they were doing him no favor.

I know what you mean Blanche, about second-guessing if you've done the right thing. And you're also right about them being "up" when they go see the vet. Molly the Mastiff was the last one I had to make that decision with. It's never easy, you feel damned if you do and damned if you don't.

I had a Kerry Blue Terrier with several serious health issues, all chronic. When she was about 11, I asked our vet what to expect and how to make the decision, or even know when to consider making it.

He talked about her quality of life, and he felt that as long as she was enjoying life and comfortable that it would not be time to put her down. I'll always remember his telling me that I would know when the time was right, because my dog would let me know, if I would only listen to her.

She lived for 2 more years, was wonderful with our two young children, but then I saw her having more health problems, wanting to sleep all the time, not wanting to eat...one day she looked at me, and I could hear the thought "I'm so tired" from her. I looked in her eyes, and they were empty - no spark, no interest. I knew it was time.

I called the vet and told him. He very kindly told us to bring her in as office hours were ending so we didn't have to wait in a waiting room filled with young and lively animals. He explained how the injection would work, warned us that she might howl (not from pain, just from the reaction to the drug - he said some dogs howled as they went under anesthesia, some didn't) and let me hold her as she left us. He told me that I'd kept her alive and happy longer than most people would have and that he agreed it was now time to let her go.

His kindness meant so much to us on that sad evening.

First off, let me say that I agree with Hilary. In rescue, we ALL see dogs that were going to be euthed because the owner was inconvenienced or too cheap to do a few simple things--or not so simple, but life saving nonetheless. I think of Jake and Betsy, of Glory who needed an FHO which the family couldn't afford or the dogs who get euthed because the family doesn't want to spend money on meds for life even though they will give the dog health and quality for some years. And I whole heartedly support vets that call in rescue in those circumstances. And I know that Hilary knows that wasn't the case with Lola. I don't think vets should give carte blanche to euthanizing.

This whole thread has been quite healing for me, folks. Most of this stuff stays in my head and it's been really useful for me to "talk" it out.

northernwitch wrote: And I know that Hilary knows that wasn't the case with Lola.

For sure. I trust your judgment as much as I do my own. I always tell my pugsitters that they should call you if they can't reach me and, even in the most dire situation, to go with what you say.

northernwitch wrote: This whole thread has been quite healing for me, folks. Most of this stuff stays in my head and it's been really useful for me to "talk" it out.

For me too as I head into the dark days with Betsy, and eventually Gooey. I've also had many, many conversations in my head over the last few months about Jake. This has helped.

Blanche, I figured it was doing just that as you were sharing your experiences and input. I'm glad. I do think it helps to process; I had a long talk with my friend yesterday, and she just may write you, too.

I'd hope we all have vets who know the difference--we are all loving owners who do as much as we can for our pets, but also don't want them to suffer; but I'd also want my vet to call a rescue in instances like you mentioned.

I wonder if this thread could be pared down (or not) and be made a sticky, since it's something we will all face at some point, even if our pets die naturally, they will age, and fail, etc.?

I am just reading this thread now and even though I have not been in a situation where I had to make the choice, I had a brief moment 3 weeks ago, when my precious cat, Pablo was hanging in the balance, where I thought OMG, what do I do??? Pablo died before I had to make that decision.

Blanche, you articulated how I process nearly everything in my life. Often I feel that I am the only one that does this. To others I sometimes appear to be impulsive or "thoughtless" because they only see the final outcome of a decision that I have processed for weeks. I don't share my process with anyone because I don't find it effective to mull everything out loud and I get irritated with people think out loud, ENDLESSLY . So thanks for sharing what you did share.